GW zum Tyra FAQ

[vip-user]

7. Can models equipped with wings enter the game by deep strike?
In the codex Tyras it is said that models equipped with wings move in the same way as Jump Infantry, as described in the Warhammer 40.000 rulebook.
Does that allow them to use the mission special rule "deep strike"?
On the one hand, "move in the same way as Jump Infantry" could mean that models with wings use all rules that are stated for movement of jump infantry on page 52 of the rulebook. These rules would include the option of deep striking.
On the other hand, "deep strike" is not a kind of movement, but a mission special rule that gives jump infantry another option how to enter the table. On page 52 it is said that "all jump infantry may enter the battle by "deep strike". As models with wings are not classified as jump infantry, but only move like jump infantry, they may not be able to use the "deep strike" mission special rule. The Chaos FAQ indicates that:
Q: "Does taking "wings" classify a model as jump infantry?"
A: "No, it simply allows the model to move like jump infantry."

Possible answer: The Codex Tyranids states that "models equipped with wings move in the same way as Jump Infantry". As "deep strike" is no kind of movement, but a mission special rule that gives jump infantry another option how to enter the table, models with wings cannot deep strike.

 

[Starfox]

Ist es nicht ein bissel einseitig, GW nur die für einen selber als richtig erscheinende Antwortmöglichkeit zu geben und dann auch noch mit einer FaQ-Passage aus einem Codex zu nehmen der für die 4te Edi geschrieben wurde und nicht beide Antwortmöglichkeiten?-_-

 

[Milkymalk]

Wieso glaubt eigentlich jeder Zweite, diese Frage wäre nicht geklärt? Deep Strike steht als Option bei den Bewegungsregeln für Sprungtruppen dabei, und ein Modell mit Flügeln bewegt sich wie Sprungtruppen. Also gilt alles, was in den Bewegungsregeln für Sprungtruppen steht, auch für Modelle mit Flügeln, und somit können sie auch Deep Strike nutzen.

Stammt das aus dem englischen Dex? In meinem eng. Dex steht auf jeden Fall nichts von so einer Regelung!

Da steht nur das Minen explodieren die:

Nicht explodieren. Einfach entfernt werden. Letzter Satz der Sonderregel "Lebende Bombe" im deutschen Codex, dürfte im englischen an der gleichen Stelle stehen.

 

[Night Haunter]

Ist es nicht ein bissel einseitig, GW nur die für einen selber als richtig erscheinende Antwortmöglichkeit zu geben und dann auch noch mit einer FaQ-Passage aus einem Codex zu nehmen der für die 4te Edi geschrieben wurde und nicht beide Antwortmöglichkeiten?-_-

Sstimm ich mal vollkommen zu. also wen ihr schon mögliche Antworten gebt dann aber auch bitte beide Möglichkeiten und nicht nur die wo ihr denkt die sei richtig. Dies beeinflusst doch teils die Antworten die auf diese Frage gegeben werden. Also wenn Antwortmöglichkeit dann aber bitte beide Möglichkeiten!!!

 

[vip-user]

Ist es nicht ein bissel einseitig, GW nur die für einen selber als richtig erscheinende Antwortmöglichkeit zu geben und dann auch noch mit einer FaQ-Passage aus einem Codex zu nehmen der für die 4te Edi geschrieben wurde und nicht beide Antwortmöglichkeiten?-_-

Das FAQ wurde für die 5te Edition geschrieben. Wenn man schon die Sachlage nicht kennt, dann sollte man auch nicht klugscheißen.
Des weiteren hab ich ja beide Sichtweisen angegeben und begründet, und mich für eine entschieden (Erörterung eben). Ob GW sich auch so entscheidet, wer weiß ...

 

[Ironyman]

Zumal ist es wirklich nicht zu erwarten, dass alle diese antworten so übernommen werden.

Also mal ehrlich, allein das die Angst vorhanden ist, dass GW Mitarbeiter sich durch solche "unterbewussten Tricks" verleiten lassen die gewünschte Antwort zu geben. Ein bissl albern - aber wenns klappt ^^

 

[Odysseus]

Es schadet nicht, jeweils die sinnvollste und fairste Antwort mit anzubieten.

Spore mines are ignored in the purpose of any and all mission objectives.

Wer nach solch einem Satz immer noch meint, dass Sporenminen vielleicht doch ein klitzekleines bisschen Vernichtungspunkte wert sind, gehört eigentlich ausgepeitscht. <_<
(Mit ner Tentakelpeitsche, und RWs werden durch das in der anderen Hand befindliche Hornschwert ignoriert!)

 

[Starfox]

Und wer entscheidet was die sinnvollste und richtige Antwort ist? Derjenige der zuerst postet oder nach was wird dabei gegangen.

 

[Odysseus]

Beteilige dich an der Diskussion, dann trägst du zum Konsens bei.
Oder formuliere jeweils eine entgegen gerichtete Antwort.
Oder erstelle dir selbst einen Fragenkatalog mit den Antworten die du gerne sehen würdest.

 

[SchwarmHydra]

Wie sieht das eigentlich mit den Tentakelpeitsche und der BancheeMaske aus?

Ich persönlich fnd es ja toll wenn die Peitsche den Bachees ne INI von 1 verpasst.
Denke aber das die sich wohl einfach gegenseitig aufheben so wie beim alten Schatten.

Wo mir grade Frage zwei einfält:

Wie muss der Eldar-Spieler seinen Psi-Test würfeln wenn Eldrat im Schatten steht?
4w6 den höchsten weg und die anderen adierren, oder heben die sich auch einfach auf?

 

[Glassmoon]

Beteilige dich an der Diskussion, dann trägst du zum Konsens bei.
Oder formuliere jeweils eine entgegen gerichtete Antwort.
Oder erstelle dir selbst einen Fragenkatalog mit den Antworten die du gerne sehen würdest.

Genau, das ist später im Arbeitsleben genauso, wer was macht, vor allem wenn es von Nutzen für andere ist, hat mehr Einfluss auf den Prozess als andere die nix machen oder nur meckern.

******

So, ich habe den Katalog erweitert und - auf vielfachen Wunsch - um eine Alternativantwort ergänzt.

Allerdings ist es doch so, dass bei vielen Fragen eine Antwort doch eher als die wahrscheinlichere angesehen werden kann. Jedoch kann ich das selbst nicht abschließend beurteilen. Ich denke meistens wird es die untenstehene Antwort I sein.

Der unterschwellige Humor findet sich jetzt jedoch in den durch die beiden Antworten ausgedrückten Fluff-Hintergrund 🙄 😀. Fluff-Argumente sind zwar lustig und nett, aber argumentativ völlig wertlos. Trotzdem höchst amüsant, das drinzulassen und weiterzuführen.

************

‘1) Do the effects of Tyranid close combat weapons (TCCW) accumulate, for example, if a Tyranid Warrior is equipped with Scything Talons and Rending Claws, does he have to chose whether his CC-attacks are rending, or he may re-roll dice results of 1? Or could possibly both rules be granted at the same time to the same model?

Possible arguments: Since TCCW grant their bearers special rules, they should count as special close combat weapons (SCCW) according to the rulebook, page 42. The effects of SCCW generally do not stack, e.g. the effects of power fists and power claws cannot be used at the same time. However, the description texts of the TCCW on page 84 in the Codex: Tyranids (2010) indicate that simply bearing the weapon grants their effect to the equipped model. If TCCW would be declared as "Weapons Biomorph" instead of the rulebook term "Close Combat Weapons" (CCW), just like in the old Tyranid codex, there would not be any issue to discuss. But CCWs should follow their rules depicted in the rulebook on page 42.

Possible answer I: Tyranid close combat weapons count as weapons Biomorphs. Hence, the effects of several TCCW can be used at the same time if the unit is equipped accordingly. Tyranid organisms are created to fulfil their dedicated purpose, and anything else would mean a weakness that the Hive Mind could easily compensate.

Possible answer II: Tyranid close combat weapons count as special weapons. Hence, the effects of several TCCW cannot be used at the same time if the unit is equipped accordingly. Tyranid organisms are highly specialised o fulfil their dedicated purpose and therefore always choose the deadliest and most appropriate weapon to crush their enemies.


2) Do Tyranid close combat weapons (TCCW) accumulate with “Toxin Sacks” (poisoned weapons)? Or does the bearer have to decide whether to use the the Toxin Sacks or his other close combat weapons?

Possible arguments: The biomorph "Toxin Sacks" turns all TCCW that a creature is equipped with into poisoned weapons. Toxin Sacks are SCCW according to rulebook on page 42. The rules for Toxin Sacks indicate, that the poisoned weapons become "Poison Weapons" (hence losing all their other special rules). However, it might be intended that the "Poison" special rules are granted additionally to the TCCW's normal effects (e.g. "Rending" for Rending Claws etc. - combining rending claws with
Toxin Sacks would result in poisoned and rending attacks).

Possible answer I: Toxin Sacks grant their effect in addition to any other equipped Tyranid close combat weapon. The poisonous effect of the Toxin sacks grant their bearers even deadlier methods to bring death upon the enemies of the Hive Mind.

Possible answer II: Toxin Sacks do not grant their effect in addition to any other equipped Tyranid close combat weapon. The Toxin sack poison is directly affecting the bloodstream of its poor victims and therefore not affected by the weapon that is used to inject it.


3) Can the Mawlock Deep Strike directly into an enemy unit?

Possible arguments: When using the Deep Strike rule, you must physically place one model of the deep striking unit on the table. (In 4th edition, you could simply declare any target point, but in 5th edition, you have to place the deep striking model itself onto the gameboard). According to the rulebook, you cannot place models on top of an enemy unit, since you must always maintain at least 1 inch distance from all enemy models. Hence, is it possible to declare the Mawlock's target point ontop/within an enemy unit? If you would not be able to deep strike on top of an enemy unit, you would have to rely on that the Mawlock scatters exactly in the direction of a unit in order to be able to use the Mawlock’s special deep strike attack. The rule would only make sense if a "hit" result can actually hit the targeted unit. This is only possible if we may place him directly upon the (unlucky) enemy unit.

Possible answer I: When using the Mawlocks’s deep strike rule, the Mawlock may be placed directly upon any enemy unit before the scatter distance and direction is determined. The powerful Hive Mind is able to force the Mavlocks to deep strike directly into the heart of the enemy forces without even hesitating.

Possible answer II: While placing the Mawlock on the table to deep strike, he has to follow the rules as described in the rulebook. Hence, 1 inch distance has to be maintained from any enemy unit before roling any scatter dice. Even the powerful Hive Mind is not able to force its units to perform suicide missions, but even the most fortunate opponent can never feel safe from the wrath of a deep striking Mawlock.

4) Does the Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech" affect units which are embarked within a transport?

Possible arguments: Referring to the Codex: Tyranids (2010), "Spirit Leech" is neither a psychic power, nor a shooting attack. It simply affects all enemy non-vehicle units within 6 inches. Embarked units are non-vehicles and they count as being on the table, e.g. embarked units can claim mission objectives. However, embarked units cannot be affected by shooting attacks since they are not a valid target in means of the basic shooting rules. Due to the fact that "Sprit leech" is not a shooting attack, but a special rule, it is not necessary to select any target.

As a result, there should be good reasons to argue that embarked units are vulnerable to the Spirit Leech as they count as being on the table.


Possible answer I: Yes. The Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech" can affect embarked units, if the transport is within range. How could a metal tank wall protect you from the mighty powers of the Hive Mind that could - with a blink of an eye - leech your puny soul?

Possible answer II: No. The Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech" cannot affect embarked units. Before using the Spirit Leech, the Doom of Malan’tai must establish a connection to the soul of its victims. Even the Doom of Malan’tai must ensure whose soul is appropriate to absorb.

5) Are any cover saves allowed against the Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech"?

Possible arguments: It is not clearly defined whether cover saves can only be taken against shooting attacks. "Spirit Leech" is not a shooting attack, so it is unclear whether the Doom's enemies can take cover saves against the Spirit Leech, e.g. when hiding in area terrain or behind a wall/fence etc. In contrary, it is not possible to take cover saves in close combat due to the close combat rules. For special abilities like "Spirit Leech", no applicable rule could be found in the codex or the rulebook.

Possible answer I: Enemy units affected by the Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech" cannot take cover saves. As described above, how could a tiny fence or tree protect you from the mighty powers of the Hive Mind?

Possible answer II: Enemy units affected by the Doom of Malan'Tai's special ability "Spirit Leech" can take cover saves. As described above, before using the Spirit Leech, the Doom of Malan’tai must establish a connection to the soul of its victims that can be interrupted by physical objects.

6) Can you please clarify in which situations a Hive Guard's target is granted cover save?

Possible arguments: The rules for the Impaler Cannon in the Codex: Tyranids (2010) say that an enemy is only granted a cover save if he is directly whithin a piece of (area-)terrain or in direct contact with cover, such as standing directly behind a wall, which is located between the target and the Hive Guard unit. Are these two examples exhaustive? Are there any other types of cover which could grant the target a cover save against the Impaler Cannon? You could possibly think of, for example, Smoke Launchers, the Tau Disruption System or a previous Boost movement etc.

Possible answer I: Cover saves due to any special rule such as Smoke Launchers still can be taken against wounds inflicted by an Impaler Cannon, since there is a difference between "cover" and "coversave". "Cover" can grant a cover save under certain circumstances, but (as written in the Codex Tyranids 2010), against the Impaler Cannon some of those circumstances do not apply. However, a coversave granted by a special rule cannot be bypassed by the Impaler Cannon. Even the fancy targeting organisms of the Impaler Cannon can sometimes get confused by diffusive systems used by their victims.

Possible answer II: Cover saves due to any special rule such as Smoke Launchers cannot be taken against wounds inflicted by an Impaler Cannon. The fancy organisms that guide the projectile of the Impaler Cannon cannot be misguided by foolish technology such as smoke launchers etc. The Bio-magi of Holy Terra assume that the Hive Mind had detected this weakness centuries ago at the battle of Macragge and therefore was able to improve the targeting organisms of the Hive Guards accordingly.


7) Can Tyranid models equipped with wings enter the game following deep strike rules?
Possible arguments: In the codex Tyranids 2010, it is said that models equipped with wings are treated in the same way as Jump Infantry (as described in the 5th Edition rulebook).
Does that allow them to use the mission special rule "deep strike"?
On the one hand, "move in the same way as Jump Infantry" could mean that models with wings use all rules that are stated for the movement of jump infantry on page 52 of the rulebook. These rules would include the option of deep striking.
On the other hand, "deep strike" is not a kind of movement, but a mission special rule that gives jump infantry another option how to enter the game. On page 52, it is defined that "all jump infantry may enter the battle by deep strike". As models with wings are not classified as jump infantry, but only move like jump infantry, they may not be able to use the "deep strike" mission special rule. The Chaos FAQ states that:
Q: "Does taking "wings" classify a model as jump infantry?"
A: "No, it simply allows the model to move like jump infantry."

Possible answer I: As "deep strike" is no kind of movement, but a mission special rule that gives jump infantry another option how to enter the gameboard, models with wings are not allowed to deep strike. Large Tyranid organism with wings must stay in stay within synapse range of lesser creatures to enforce the will of the Hive Mind.

Possible answer II: Wings of Tyranid organisms also grant their bearers the deep strike ability. No wall or fence can protect you from the will and the wrath of the Hive Mind.

 

[SchwarmHydra]

Sieht sehr gut aus! Gefält mir.

 

[Zorg]

Find ich auch sehr gut, besonders gefällt mir die Eigeninitiative des Forums.

Großes Lob an alle.

Kriegt man gegen die Attacke des Morgon einen Deckungswurf?

 

[Odysseus]

Neue F&A:

8) Can you please clarify which Tyranid units may use the tunnel created by a Trygon?
The rules in the new Codex: Tyranids (2010) state that "only infantry models" can enter the game by using a previously digged Trygon tunnel exhaust. Dou you mean the unit type "Infantry" here, or simply all models moving on the ground? If only models with the Infantry unit type may use the tunnel, this would exclude Raverners which have the "Beasts" special rule and hence count as "Beats / Cavallery" units. Since Raveners were the most common companions for Trygons emerging from a tunnel, this seems to be a quite harsh contradiction with previous publications.
Also, do Monstrous Creatures count as "Infantry" by means of using a Trygon tunnel?

Possible answer I: A Trygon tunnel may be used to enter the game by all models with one of the unit types "Intanry", "Beats" or "Cavallery". No Models with wings may use the tunnel.

Possible answer II: A Trygon tunnel may be used to enter the game by all models with one of the unit types "Intanry", "Beats", "Cavallery" or "Monstrous Creature". No Models with wings may use the tunnel.

Possible Answer III: Only models with the unit type "Infantry" may use a Trygon tunnel to enter the game board.


9) What happens if a Mycetic Spore becomes affected by a Tank Shock?
When a unit is affected by a Tank Shock, it must take a morale check. If the test is passed, it may decide whether to simply step aside or to use the "Death or Honour" rule. If the test fails, the unit must fall back.
Mycetic spores cannot move due to their special rules which can be found in the Codex: Tyranids (2010). Hence, they can neither fall back or step aside when being tank-shocked. How should we proceed here?

Possible answer I: Since the Mycetic Spore simply does not have the choice to step aside, it *must* declase a "Death or Honour" attack against the tank that is shocking it after a successful morale check. Proceed as if you voluntarily decided to use "Death or Honour".
Instead, if the morale check failed, the Mycetic spore did not notice the tank approaching it and is torn apart. In that case, remove the Spore as a casualty.

Possible answer II: If the Mycetic Spore does not have to take the morale check because of being within synapse range or it passes the morale check and wants to step aside, simply move the model away the minimum distace to let the tank pass. Imagine the tank not hitting the Spore hard enough to tear it apart, but just to push it aside its path.

10) Are cover saves allowed against wounds inflicted by the Mawlocks "Terror From The Deep" attack?
No applicable rule can be found whether cover saves are generally not allowed against wounds inflicted by special rules.

Possible answer I: Cover saves cannot be taken against "Terror From The Deep", since all terrain that might have granted any cover busted through the air when a Mawlock emerges from below the surface.

Possble answer II: Cover saves can be applied as normal, if the unit which the Mawlock Deep Strikes upon is whithin area terrain, or if the center of the template lies behind any cover (such as a wall), as seen from the unit's location. Otherwise, no cover saves may be taken against the "Terror From The Deep".



Man bräuchte noch eine Formulierung zu der Sporenminen-Sache, aber dazu habe ich mich mit der konkreten Regelfrage noch zu wenig selbst beschäftigt. (Und es interessiert mich auch nicht so besonders.)

 

[Zorg]

may use the tullel

Da ist ein Tippfehler drin, sollte sicher Tunnel heißen.

 

[vip-user]

Hab noch nicht alles gelesen, aber bisher sieht das wirklich gut aus. Die Idee mit den 2 Antwortmöglichkeiten finde ich auch gut, dann fühlt sich hier niemand auf den Schlips getreten.

Ansonsten finde ich toll, wie schnell und gut hier gearbeitet wird :flowers:

 

[Autarch L.]

Wer nach solch einem Satz immer noch meint, dass Sporenminen vielleicht doch ein klitzekleines bisschen Vernichtungspunkte wert sind, gehört eigentlich ausgepeitscht. <_<

Kannst du das auch RAW begründen? Leider wurde einfach der falsche Begriff verwendet, wenn einfach victory conditions statt mission objectives dastehen würde wäre es eindeutig, so nicht.

mfg. Autarch L.

 

[Nudelsuppe]

Dank und Lob an alle.
Verbesserungsvorschläge, so mein Englisch mich nicht zum Narren hält:

Frage 4: "metal tank wall" sollte "tank hull"heißen

Frage 7:
- "On the one hand" heißt "on one hand" (ohne Artikel)
-"wings must stay in stay within" - Tippfehler?
- Does that allow them to use the mission special rule "deep strike"? sollte besser lauten:Does this allow them to make use of the mission special rule "deep strike"?

 

[Zorg]

Hier sind auch noch Tippfehler drin

"Intanry", "Beats" or "Cavallery".

Und mich würde noch folgende Frage zum Morgon interessieren:

Ist Terror from the deep eine Schussattacke oder eine Nahkampfattacke und kann der Morgon sich nach der Attacke im Nahkampf befinden? Nur damit da 100% Sicherheit herrscht.

 

[Odysseus]

Ist Terror from the deep eine Schussattacke oder eine Nahkampfattacke und kann der Morgon sich nach der Attacke im Nahkampf befinden? Nur damit da 100% Sicherheit herrscht.

Das ist doch gerade das Witzige: Es ist - nichts. :huh: Es ist die Auswirkung einer Sonderregel. Ohne Erklärung. Siehe z.B. ja eben auch Spriti Leech / Seelensauger.