7. Edition Diskussion über die neue 7. Edition von Warhammer 40.000

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#1.021
Grüße

Mich würde eine Sache gerne interessieren.
Wie läuft das mit dem "zaubern" und dem "bannen" ab?

Was ich damit meine ist folgendes:
Muss ich als Spieler welcher seine Psi-Fähigkeit wirken will meinem Gegenüber mitteilen wie viele Würfel ich benutzten möchte und er somit darauf reagieren kann ?
Oder nimmt sich jeder Spieler "verdeckt" seine Würfel ohne zu wissen wie viel der Gegenspieler nun in der Hand hat ?

Und noch eine Frage hinterher....
Wenn eine PSI-Fähigkeit gebannt wurde darf ich die Selbe nochmal versuchen zu wirken (sofern ich natürlich noch genug Energiewürfel besitze 🙂)?

Grüße & Danke
FaBa
 
#1.023
lastlostboy schrieb:
Psitest wiederholen wird sowieso das nonplusultra sein in dieser Edition, 4+ zu 4+ wiederholbar spart eine so ernorme Anzahl von Psiwürfeln und macht Kräfte nahezu unbannbar. Tigurius ist auf jeden Fall der mit Abstand mächtigste Psioniker im System geworden.
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Ob "misslungene Psitest wiederholen" dann nicht eher ALLE Würfel neu werfen ist? Klar..auch mächtig, vor allem wenn man dann ein WC1 Spruch zu 75% mit einem Würfel schafft
 
#1.027
PhiSt schrieb:
Ja das stimmt. Aber soviele Sprüche mit WC 2 gibt es ja nun auch nicht mehr. Attraktiv vll grade für leitender Geist
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What? Jede 5-6 auf jeder Tabelle ist 2WP.
Dämonenbeschwörung hat drei Sprüche mit 3.
Dämonenbannung nochmal drei mit 3.
Runen des Schicksals hat 3 mit 2.

Ich denke der Seelenstein findet schon seine Anwendung...
Schon allein Unsichtbarkeit.

Aber genug des Offtopics meinerseits.
 
#1.028
lastlostboy schrieb:
What? Jede 5-6 auf jeder Tabelle ist 2WP.
Dämonenbeschwörung hat drei Sprüche mit 3.
Dämonenbannung nochmal drei mit 3.
Runen des Schicksals hat 3 mit 2.

Ich denke der Seelenstein findet schon seine Anwendung...
Schon allein Unsichtbarkeit.

Aber genug des Offtopics meinerseits.
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Ja schon klar... aber es geht eher darum, welche Sprüch man überhaupt haben will... und da sind mMn nicht soviele mit WC2 oder höher bei. Denn Dämonen wollte ich mit den Eldar nicht beschwören 😀 am Besten noch Slanesh Dämonen


Bei 40kings gibt es eine große Frage und Antwort Stunde ;-)
 
#1.029
Wenn das hier too much werden sollte einfach löschen.

>Units confer Infiltrate to their Dedicated Transports

>Jink is 4+ now, but you have to declare it and can only fire snap shots afterwards

>FNP is the same

>Battle Brothers can ride in ally transports, but can not be deployed in dedicated transports

>No unit can attempt to manifest the same psyhic power more then once per Psychic phase

>Skilled Rider the same

>Hit and Run the same

>Can only assault from vehicle if it's an assault vehicle

>Can't assault from Outflank

>There is a start of turn phase now that takes place before movement

>Can reserve as much as you like, distinction between rolling for reserves and moving them on, roll first than move

>Battle-Forged allows you to take as many detachments as you'd like, assuming you meet the requirements of 1 HQ and 2 Troops

>Shrouded is still 2+ cover save

>Can still default to Primaris

>Glance and Pen take off 1HP

>Night Fighting gives everyone Stealth
​
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>Terrain has seen some tweaking. There is no Area Terrain, for instance. Each kind of purchasable terrain kit that GW sells has its own unique rules. Moonscape craters, for instance, provide only a 6+ cover, and are -not- difficult ground! In general, -moving- through difficult terrain is entirely unchanged. Assaulting through it takes 2 off your highest roll, but is otherwise the same. The generic Mysterious Terrain table is a thing of the past, but future Terrain kits may be released that have the Mysterious Terrain rule attached them... in such instances, they will have their own unique tables. The Crashed Aquila Lander kit, for instance, has a table unique to it.

>Cover, by and large, is unchanged. Focus Fire, as a rule, is no more; and cover saves are granted on a model by model basis. Is it in cover (25% obscured?) from the shooters POV? If so, then yes, you get a cover save. If not, then no. The exceptions to this are clearly defined. Ruins, always grant cover if you are -inside- them, regardless if you're physically obscured or not. Same for Twisted Copses (citadel wood) and Craters.

>+1 cover save for vehicles if you can see a part of the vehicle, (therefore allowing you to shoot it) but you can't see the facing of the vehicle that you lay in arc of is still in, just as it was before. The rumor that vehicles could not claim cover from Infantry was a falsehood; however Vehicles are the exception to the above "if you're -in it- you get cover" rule associated with Ruins, woods, and craters. They must still be 25% obscured to claim cover.​
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>Vehicle Wreckage (0 hull points) is, you leave the vehicle in place. It is now Difficult Terrain. Unless otherwise noted, a model taking cover behind Difficult Terrain gets a 5+ cover save. Explodes results, on the other hand, to not instruct you to place a crater. You simply explode, and remove the model (after resolving the explosion effects)

>Ruins, and the overall -absence- of "Area Terrain" do not provide you with a +2 cover for going to ground within them. They are difficult, they provide 4+ cover for those inside, regardless if they are 25% obscured. Nothing more. Now...the specific Ruins...Basilica Administratum, Sanctum Imperialis, Shrine of the Aquila....they are the exact same...but each have their own unique special rule. You and your opponent may choose to ignore these rules.

>The datasheet rules in Stronghold Assault for each piece of terrain is used for those pieces. Defense Lines and Barricades, in general, provide a 4+ cover. Defense Lines (aegis and wall of martyrs) provide +2 to cover if you go to ground behind them/within them...so there is still plenty of 2+ cover. Walls, barricades, and defense lines you are behind (in contact of) count you as being in contact with an enemy who charges them. (i.e. that enemy need not charge all the way to your models, just the barricade they are hiding behind)
​
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>I can find no reference to a limit on how many units may be held in Reserves.

>Nightfighting has been simplified to be an option that either player can invoke in a mission where that rule is used. If neither does so, there is no Night Fighting. If one does, it is rolled for only on game turn 1. On a 4+ -everything- has Stealth. Simple...no?

>Each piece of purchasable Citadel Terrain has its own unique rules. Sanctum Imperialis, for instance, or Moonscape, or "Twisted Copse" as they call the Woods. Shrine of the Aquila...all have unique rules.

>Also, there are no longer any guidelines on restrictions or maximums for amount of terrain on a battlefield, or how to deploy it. It is left up to player preference and agreement. (which I vastly prefer)
​
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>Factions is a term that refers to what most players are accustomed to calling "Race" or sometimes more vaguely, "Army"; but is perhaps better interpreted as "Codex". Imperials is -not- a Faction. Adepta Sororitas, Astra Militarum, Imperial Knights, and each type of loyal Space Marine are all individual Factions; for instance.

>The only time this is of particular import is when you are building a Battleforged Army; as your "Combined Arms Detachment" (what we recognize as the standard FOC) must consist of units only from a single Faction (codex)... or, alternatively, -no- Faction. (an option that I suspect will become available somewhere down the line) Savvy?

>Furthermore, your "Allied Detachment" (which is identical to what we know already) must include units only from a single Faction, and that this Faction must be a different one from your "Primary Detachment".

>All in all, it looks as though Combined Arms Detachment, and Allied Detachment are the -only- detachments so far...but that there will be others...and they will have their own, unique, FOCs. They will also have their own requirements and Command Benefits. Some Detachments, for instance, may have the requirement of needing to consist of units taken solely from the Orks Faction...

>Formations, consequently, are also Detachments, but of a very special kind. Formations, consequently, are the -only- kind of Detachment that an Unbound army may take.

>Lastly, with regards to Factions, is that each Codex Supplement is specifically the -same- Faction as the Codex that it is a Supplement for. Codex: Clan Raukan -is- the same Faction as the Space Marines Faction. Codex: Iyanden is the same Faction as the Eldar Faction. So yeah, you can't have an Allied Detachment of Crimson Slaughter to your Primary Detachment of Chaos Space Marines...but you really don't need to...you can take a Crimson Slaughter Combined Arms Detachment instead.
​
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>[USRs] Some have been altered for simplicity. Split Fire and Counter Attack, for instance, no longer require the LD test they did before. Most are identical, but some have been tweaked. Rampage, for instance, no longer grants any benefit in the case of a Disordered Charge. The best change is that most of the rules are very clearly written, with regards to how they interact with one another, obscure rules, and special situations. Most of the USRs are entirely self-contained, and do not require that you reference other sections of the book to decipher them. Precisions Shots is now a USR, rather than an addendum attached to the Character section. Vector Strike is 1 hit, or D3 against things high in the air. All in all, nothing ground breakingly different.

>Soulblaze is unchanged.

>Deepstriking vehicles count as moving Combat Speed, rather than Cruising.

>Walkers have Hammer of Wrath, and neither they, nor Monstrous Creatures, nor anyone else have a forbiddance on climbing up levels of ruins...at least not that I have found.
​
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>No assaulting out of stationary vehicles unless they are Assault Vehicles (open-topped still are Assault Vehicles, btw.). However, you may assault after disembarking from a building.

>Battle Brothers may now ride along in one another's transports.

>You may have -any number- of detachments in a Battleforged army, but each unit must belong to a Detachment, and no model may belong to more than one detachment at a time.

>You may assault on turn 1. Scouts and Infiltrators may not assault on -their- first assault phase if they make use of their special deployment rules. Clarity: If you infiltrate and take -even the bottom- of turn one, you may not assault.

>Also, yes, Smash is 1 attack only.

>Warlords are no longer always those with the Highest Ld in your army. It can be -any- Character model you choose. Yes, this means a Sergeant can be your Warlord.

>The 3 Warlord Trait tables we know are changed to be much more useful (generally speaking), and they've added a 4th table to go hand in hand with the new Objectives system incorporated for the Maelstrom of War scenarios.

>Heavy Vehicles are better at Ramming (which is different now in that distance moved does not factor into the strength of the attack) but have no further ability to prevent Ordinance Weapons from making them Snap fire.

>The rumor of Snap Shots being -2 BS is....BS.

>The rumor of consolidating into a new combat is also BS.

>I could find no restriction on Monsters or Walkers moving up and down levels of Ruins, beyond the normal "model must be able to fit".

>There is also no more "area terrain". Craters are not difficult ground, and provide a 6+ cover, but maintain the +2 to cover saves for going to ground instead of +1. Trees are difficult, and provide a 5+, but lack the +2 to cover for going to ground.

>Chaos Psykers -always- get the Primaris power associated with their respective deity, in addition to their other powers.
​
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The only real -change- I can see in Assault revolves around Challenges. Overkill wounds from a Challenge spill over to the surrounding combatants now instead of going to waste.

Moral Support is gone (no more re-rolls based on how many models are left out of the fight).

All in all though, it is much more clearly written. This is not the edition where a Chainsword is more powerful than or as important as the Bolter. Still very much a close fire-fight style game.

Unless the charged units have gone to ground, or the assaulting unit has Assault Grenades. Just like before. Biggest change there is that there is no more 3D6 drop the highest. It's just -2 to your roll.

A good example of the clarity of this new book is here as well. They specifically write that you must attack at I1 -regardless of other Initiative Modifiers-. No more confusion on if my + Initiative effect occurs before or after I drop to I1. Very clear.

It's also worth noting, on the wording of your question..."subsequent" assault phase...
The Assault Phase is still divided into two sub phases. The Charge sub-phase, and the Fight sub-phase. If even a single model in a unit -charges- through difficult terrain (in the Charge sub phase), the -entire unit- fights at I1 in the Fight sub-phase of that same Assault Phase.
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Turn is start of your turn, movement, psychic, shooting, assault, end of turn.

Turn still refers to player turn.

True Line of Sight still exists.

Unit coherency is 2" as per normal; 6" vertically.

Psykers can know more than their mastery level of powers ONLY if stated otherwise. Otherwise number is as per mastery level.

Psychic focus - generate all powers from one discipline (even one power); gain primars. If you gain another power from another discipline, lose psychic focus. Powers not part of a discipline do not count against this.

Chaos psychic focus - mark of chaos or being a daemon of a particular chaos god = auto primaris of that god in addition to others.

Powers generated beofre game and done openly. YOu choose the order generated.

Same as before - choose a discipline, roll a D6.

Generating warp charges - player turn rolls a D6; each player gains D6 warp charges. Player turn adds all mastery levels of psychic units (this includes!!!!!!! psychic pilot and brotherhood of psykers).

Delcare a target and make a psy test followed by a deny the witch

psykers on transports still generate charges and can only target enemy with witchfire and only if with fire point. Cannot attempt to manifest ANY other powers.

Cannot psy power target a unit in a transport.

Taking psy test - declare how many warp charges you are spending and then remove from pool. Roll a number of D6 equal to points expended and for each 4+, you get one Warp charge point. If total is greater than or equal to the cost for the power, the psy test is successful.

Deny the witch is essentially the same (6+, +1 for being a psyker, +1 for higher mastery level, 1+ Adamtin will) but must equal or exceed the number of successful warp charges.

You can nullify blessings and conjurations; same process but without bonuses.

Psy hoods allow the wearer if within 12" to attempt to nullify the power as normal. Can only be used inside a vehicle if against vehicle.
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BS6+ still works as before

snap shots is BS1.

Snap shot BS can be modified but only if rule states can modify snap shot BS

Cannot declare charges against unreachable units or units it cannot see.

Overwatch is the same.

2D6 still for charge distance.

-2" for charging through terrain

All garg creatures have stomp and unstoppable.

Vehicles are WS1

Rear armor in assault

Glancing counts as 1 wound and pen as 2 wounds for combat results

Transports bought for units count as their respective FoC

CHANGE - damage results of shaken/stunned/imob/weapon destroyed = Ld test for embarked passengers, if failed can only snap shot

Jink - declare before to hit rolls are made, all models gain a 4+ cover save but can only snap shot

Dozer blades +1 to AV WHEN RAMMING

Wounds from challenge carry over but the challenge remains ongoing until end of combat phase.

Acute senses - same
AWill - same
ATSKNF - no more extra 3" on regroug
Assault vehicle - can assult from vehicle unless it arrived from reserve that turn
Armourbane - roll additional D6 for armor pen
Blasts - same with apoc crap thrown in
Blind - failed I; WS/BS1 until end of their next turn
Brotherhood - covered
Bulky / Very / Extremely - 2/3/5 for transport capacity
Barrage - same
Deep Strike - same
Concussive - I1 if hit by this until end of next assault phase
Counter-attack - same
Crusader - 2 dice for run, pick one; +D3 for sweeping advance
Daemon - 5+ invul and fear
D-weapon - 1 = nothing; 2-5 = pen hit with D3 HP; D3 wounds; 6 = pen hit D6+6 HP or wounds - no saves only from 6
EW - immune to instant death
Fear - Ld test; if failed WS1 for remainder of fight sub-phase
Fearless - same
FNP - 5+ same
Fleet - same
Fleshbane - Same
Gets Hot - same
Force - psy power as discussed
Furious Charge - +1S; no if disorderd charge
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Graviation - same as SM book
Hammer of Wrath - models strength
Hatred - same
Haywire - same
H&R - same
Ignores cover - Same
Instant death - same
Infiltrate - same (as is outflank)
Interceptor - same but nothing to help shooting at ground targets
IWND - same
Jink - discussed already
Lance - vehicle armour values count as max of 12
Master-crafted - same
Mighty Bulwark - same
Melta - says against vehicle but otherwise same (im noting this as armourbane says armor values; not vehicle armour values)
Missile Lock - reroll to hit rolls when one use only weapons; D6" scatter instead of 2D6" for one use only
Monster Hunter - same
Move trhough Cover - not slowed by charging through difficult terrain; Tyranids REJOICE; auto pass dangerous
Night Vision - ignore Night Fight
Pinning - one or more from a weapon once firing unit has finished (one per unit)
Poisoned - same
PotMS - cannot be used if flat out or smoke lauchers used
Precision Shot - same
Preferred Enemy - same
Psy Pilot - discussed

Psyker - discussed
Rage - +2 on charge
Rampage - +D3 in fight subphase if outnumbered in combat; cannot gain if disorderd charge
Relentless - same
Rending - same
Repel the enemy - charge on turn disembarked from building
Sentry Defense System - can auot fire with weapons even if unoocupied
Shred - re-roll failed to wounds
SHrouded - +2 cover
Skilled Rider - +1 cover to Jink, ignore dangerous
SKyfire - normal BS against air; snap against ground
S&P - same
Smash - all attacks AP2 and can choose to replace with 1 Smash attack at double strength and can re-roll armor pen
Sniper - same
Scout - same looks like
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Soul Blaze - same
Specialist Weapon - same
Split Fire - no ld check required
Stealth - +1 cover
Strafing run - same
Strikedown - same
Stubborn - Same
Superosnic - same
Swarms - same
Tank Hunters - against vehicles
Templates - looks same
Torrent - same
Twinlined- same
Twohanded - no +1A
Unwiedly - I1 unless MC/Walker
Vector Dance - second pivot
Vector Strike - 1 hit unless FMC or Flyer. AP2 at strength and random allocation. Ignores cover. counts as shooting a weapon but not against a target (i.e. can shoot another waepon at a different target)
Vortex - looks same
Zealout - looks same.
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#1.030
>Can reserve as much as you like, distinction between rolling for reserves and moving them on, roll first than move
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kann ich nur begrüssen 🙂 Endlich kann ich mal nen richtigen Schockschwarm spielen mit den NEUEN Tyras. Stellt sich mir nur die Frage, was ist gemeint mit "distinction between rolling for reserves and moving them on, roll first than move"? Das war doch schon immer so, oder täusche ich mich?

>Battle-Forged allows you to take as many detachments as you'd like, assuming you meet the requirements of 1 HQ and 2 Troops>Night Fighting gives everyone Stealth
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Das heist ich könnte bei Tyras 5 Schwarmtyranten und 10 Termagantentrupps stellen?😛
Nightfightting finde ich so leider nicht mehr so dolle. Das hat meinen Käfern einigemale den Arsch gerettet, wenn man sie nicht mehr gesehen hat. Naja, muss man halt damit leben.

Den Rest der Gerüchte finde ich ganz okay. Nimmt mich wunder, was das für eine Tabelle ist bei dem Armeeanführer 🙂
 
#1.031
Also, da nun hier schon soviel gepostet wurde werde ich jetzt nicht auf Änderungen mehr eingehen.. das Buch liest sich einfach wirklich wie ein 6.5 Werk.. sie haben im allgemeinen halt Sonderregeln angepasst oder paar kleinere Sachen verändert, die meiner Meinung nach das Spiel halt etwas flüssiger und vll auch zum Teil schneller laufen lässt, wie zb. Nachkampf nur noch Schleier und keine Schussbegrenzung über 36 toll mehr.. an sich sind halt auch Fahrzeuge nun etwas stabiler.
Die eigentliche große Neuerung und Existenzberechtigung ist halt nun, dass sie den ganzen Psikram neugestaltet haben für 40k und halt dementsprechend die Psikräfte stärker gemacht haben.
Ansonsten, dass jede Einheit nun Punktend ist und mit den taktischen Missionszielen wird sich zeigen, wie sich 40k dann letztendlich wirklich spielt. Wobei die taktischen Missionsziele eigentlich nur Anwendung in den Mahlstrom des Krieges Missionen angewendet werden. Die alten Missionen aus der 6. Edition heißen nun "Ewiger Krieg"
 
#1.033
So wie sich das liest, kann da wohl jeder bei jedem mitfahren. Habe aber selber das neue RW nicht, kann auch nur nach den Gerüchten hier gehen.

Sollte es so sein, dürfen sich doch wie prophezeit, die Eldar über offene (Sturm-)Fahrzeuge danke Dark Eldar BB freuen. War auch nötig, nachdem sonst ja auch nur Psikräfte gebufft wurden / ziemlich gleich broke sind und alle anderen Einheiten wohl auch nicht schlechter sind als vorher. 😉

Na ja, vielleicht mal in der Praxis testen, was das neue RW für Änderungen bringt (vor allem mal die Erratas für die Codizes abwarten), dann sehe ich mal weiter.

Übrigens: Sehe ich das jetzt richtig, dass der Dämonentodestern jetzt durch Termi-"Todessterne" mit 2++ wiederholbaren Rettern ersetzt wird?
 
#1.037
PhiSt schrieb:
wieso wiederholbar? Das geht ja nur wegen Mal des Tzeentch... ich will endlich auch mein Regelbuch 😀 😀
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Dachte es gäbe zwei verschiedene Psi-Kräfte, eine die den Invul-Save um eins verbessert und eine, die Schutzwürfe wiederholen lässt? Sollte das dann nicht in besagten Termis resultieren?

lastlostboy schrieb:
Außer natürlich aller Panzer, aber das ist wohl vernachlässigbar... -_-
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Warum? Weil sie noch widerstandsfähiger gegen AT-Waffen geworden sind oder weil du nach dem Jink beim Serpent zumindest noch mit deinen Lasern schießen darfst, die dann auch nochmal eine gute Chance haben, alles andere auch noch synchro zu machen?
Einzig, dass die Schablone vom Schild entladen schwächer geworden ist, weil man sie unter Snap Shots nicht abschießen darf. Okay.
Aber mit "schwächer geworden" bewegt sich der Serpent jetzt vielleicht im Bereich Support-/Transport-Tank und nicht mehr im Bereich Main Battle Tank. Und das macht Sinn. Auch wenn es letztlich vermutlich grade für die Serpents am wenigsten Unterschied macht in der neuen Edition. Da sind wohl die meisten anderen Skimmer in weitaus größerem Maße angeschissen.
 
#1.038
@ Sprungtruppen: Nein, sie dürfen ihr Sprungmodul nur einmal pro Spielerzug einsetzen, also entweder Bewegung oder Charge..

@ lastlostboy: bei Waffenbrüder steht, dass Einheiten in transportfahrzeuge eines Waffenbruders einsteigen können und UCM dürfen sich halt normal den Trupps anschließen und sie profitieren von der Kriegsherrnbegabung
 
#1.039
DaMaakus schrieb:
Dachte es gäbe zwei verschiedene Psi-Kräfte, eine die den Invul-Save um eins verbessert und eine, die Schutzwürfe wiederholen lässt? Sollte das dann nicht in besagten Termis resultieren?


Warum? Weil sie noch widerstandsfähiger gegen AT-Waffen geworden sind oder weil du nach dem Jink beim Serpent zumindest noch mit deinen Lasern schießen darfst, die dann auch nochmal eine gute Chance haben, alles andere auch noch synchro zu machen?
Einzig, dass die Schablone vom Schild entladen schwächer geworden ist, weil man sie unter Snap Shots nicht abschießen darf. Okay.
Aber mit "schwächer geworden" bewegt sich der Serpent jetzt vielleicht im Bereich Support-/Transport-Tank und nicht mehr im Bereich Main Battle Tank. Und das macht Sinn. Auch wenn es letztlich vermutlich grade für die Serpents am wenigsten Unterschied macht in der neuen Edition. Da sind wohl die meisten anderen Skimmer in weitaus größerem Maße angeschissen.
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Welche Schablone?
 
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